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Post by N.Culto on Mar 27, 2011 13:57:31 GMT -5
Now then, we all know one thing or another about how Marc/IKON has challenged our views on how a guitar is built. In all this awesomeness, I was having some thoughts on tone/resonance/sound. The guitar bodies of IKON is different in both shapes and weight, and how they actually are built. This makes for an awesome addiction for a guitar player, besides that IKON is unique in so many other aspects. I was kinda wondering if you board members can share your thoughts and personal experience on this matter. There are so many details in building a guitar, that we "ordinary" guys can only imagine the variations we can get, depending how EXACTLY the guitar is built. Let's say Arachnoid2 would have a different resonance than C.P.'s Amoeba? As a guitarist you can get totally hooked on IKON. I know you are...hehe
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Post by Hypgnostic on Mar 27, 2011 18:39:08 GMT -5
Actually this is something I'm really curious about, since I've not had hands-on experience with one of Marc's original guitars. The fact that the guitar isn't primarily made out of wood makes me very curious about the tonal properties. I've heard non-wood guitars before that sounded pretty good; the Parker Fly guitars actually sounded good, I know Ibanez had some Soundgear bases that were also some kind of composite. They both sounded pretty good. But I imagine that the resonant properties must be pretty different, just based on the material and the body shape, as well.
When I played the above instruments, they didn't seem all that different to me. But I think the reason is that for the style of music I play, with tons of gain, I really think the biggest factor to the overall tone is the pickup, as opposed to the wood. If I were using a single coil pickup and backing off on the volume knob a little, I'm sure other subtleties would pop out that don't when I'm on 10 using an active pickup. So maybe I just wouldn't notice anyway, playing what I play.
When I played that Parker Fly, the clean tone actually sounded fantastic, but it's not really apples to apples because it had piezo pickups, which due to the properties of the transducer behave sort of like the resonance you get from wood (hence you get an almost acoustic guitar type of response). Even on the magnetic pickup though, it sounded pretty similar to a conventional wooden instrument. It certainly didn't sound bad, which surprised me.
All that said...I have no clue what I expect Marc's guitars to sound like. All I expect is "different," as with every other aspect of these guitars.
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Post by Hypgnostic on Mar 27, 2011 18:44:35 GMT -5
Oh, and as far as the effect of shape/mass. I don't have a lot of personal experience. But I remember Eddie Van Halen talking about an Ibanez Destroyer (I think...it was some kind of Explorer-like shape) in a "guitar of the month" article in Guitar World. He liked the way the guitar sounded, and then he decided to cut a huge chunk out of it, from the end of the guitar nearly to the bridge. He said that in doing this experiment, he found out that that area by the bridge is really influential on tone, because the guitar sounded totally different after that.
So something like the Arachnoid that has a decent sized central mass but all of these little offshoots...I'm wondering what that sounds like. I would imagine that if you cut off the "legs" the sound probably wouldn't change a whole lot.
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Post by evilurnn666 on Mar 28, 2011 0:18:38 GMT -5
Great curiousities guys!!! I wish I could answer or contribute to this but until I get ahold of my Cthulhu I'm in the dark somewhat!!! All I know is it's going to sound really bad ass!!! I'm sure it will have a unique tone though!!!
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Post by cpkaestner on Mar 28, 2011 7:21:31 GMT -5
I will tell you all this when I recieved my Vrykolakas (see forum), I expected just a shred machine and that is all. What I recieved was so much more ! Being that the Ikon is some what hollow it has a great sustain and tone off the bat, but then you add in the fact that it is a resine body, you see the resine means no dead spots like wood it holds tone for days ! I have been playing guitar and aggressive music for 26 years and I have ordered two Ikons in the last year and will be buying another in October (Hopefully the Amoeba !) If that is not testiment enough I do not know what is.
Now let's talk about other sounds I got from this guitar, When played through a clean amp I got some of the best country music licks I have ever played ! I did several chicken pickin' runs and was blown away ! But being from both Texas and Chicago I have always been a hudge blues guy, I encorperate that sound into my music whenever I can. The Ikon played the meanest blues I have ever heard. And I have owned Gibson Les Pauls and custom Fender Strats My Vrykolakas sounds better than all of these !
I remember calling Marc and playing some blues and country licks on the phone for him and telling him it was from his Vrykolakas and he was blown away ! So you guys are right, each guitar will sound different do to materials in it . Remember even neck woods and headstock play a part in it all as well. Sound is a tricky thing guys, but be sure Marc is a master of it. I can damn near play any form of music on my Ikon, even some Jazz sounds great on it. Classical is insane on it ! I really can not be more honest about this than what I have said . But I will say this I think Marc's Ikon Guitars are the best thing out there right now and I'd bet my reputation on it ! For those of you who know me and my work ,that's a big deal !
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Post by Marc Bertone on Mar 28, 2011 12:12:04 GMT -5
I really don't know how to properly answer this, I'll just talk about it.
The sound does vary from shape to shape, obviously. But I can't really say what's better or not, it would always depend on the player. From my experience the most resonant ones are the Cthulhu and the Vrykolakas, simply because they are the 2 bodies with the most hollow sections inside. The Arachnoid1's legs are solid, whereas the upper horn on the Vrykolakas is hollow. I guess it would really matter if you played a clean tone on these, but they're pretty decent distortion guitars.
Its been a love it/hate it relationship with the people who own Ikons, especially with the neck radius. Some people think its terrible and some people think its God's (ME) gift to mankind. My only real concern is it SOUNDS and FEELS like an Ikon. I hate comparisons so much that I'd rather have folks hate my guitars than say "wow its awesome it plays like Schmibson or Bender Slabocaster" . Ive had people ask me so many times if I can copy this or that neck and i always say NO. Might have got off topic there, but I'll let the people decide. Either way it doesn't affect me.
One thing I don't do is over-think or over-engineer something to death. It might sound weird to some of you, since it looks like a lot of re-design work goes into Ikon. I go by what looks good to me, then I make it work. i don't care if my techniques don't belong in the guitar-making industry or not. For example , I am a big fan of the Parker Flys, a buddy of mine (Brad) had one back in 2000 and it plays like a dream. Then I find out most of it was Carbon and not even wood. But I didn't like how it looked. Then you got companies like Minarik who over thinks everything, saying that butt ugly flame guitar being an engineering marvel and "each flame and curve" was carefully designed for utmost sustain or whatever. I call bullshit on that. It looks stupid no matter what. My point is I'm an artist first, and an engineer second. Not saying these are the best guitars EVER, but if it gets to that point I will be happy.
One thing is for sure they're always gonna look COOL.
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Post by N.Culto on Mar 28, 2011 13:01:13 GMT -5
yeah, that's what I mean, each model will sound slightly different, and that makes for some "want more". Even how the pickup is mounted on the guitar, as you told me Marc, has something to say for the sound. I mean, you have a certain kind of guitar, pickup, cables, amp, cabinet, effect pedal, and a mic pointing to one of the speakers in the cabinet, cable from the mic into a certain kind of pre-amp in the certain kind of studio....Imagine all the variations.
Over engineered things are boring, perfect example is cars. Or Darkthrone actually hehe, cause we never ever wanted to do things through the normal channels. Some people hate our sound since 2005 after we got our own studio, but thing is, we got balls to paint our own sound picture. So we DO have alot of things in common Marc.
I have tried out so many different guitars through my life, some really good ones, but also real freaking expensive ones that really suck. What I like Marc, is your dedication to IKON, and the absolute will to "break the rules". Gotta totally respect that. Last few weeks has been amazing, and taken me places I did not know even existed a couple of months ago. Horns up!!!
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Post by N.Culto on Mar 28, 2011 13:02:59 GMT -5
I will tell you all this when I recieved my Vrykolakas (see forum), I expected just a shred machine and that is all. What I recieved was so much more ! Being that the Ikon is some what hollow it has a great sustain and tone off the bat, but then you add in the fact that it is a resine body, you see the resine means no dead spots like wood it holds tone for days ! I have been playing guitar and aggressive music for 26 years and I have ordered two Ikons in the last year and will be buying another in October (Hopefully the Amoeba !) If that is not testiment enough I do not know what is. Now let's talk about other sounds I got from this guitar, When played through a clean amp I got some of the best country music licks I have ever played ! I did several chicken pickin' runs and was blown away ! But being from both Texas and Chicago I have always been a hudge blues guy, I encorperate that sound into my music whenever I can. The Ikon played the meanest blues I have ever heard. And I have owned Gibson Les Pauls and custom Fender Strats My Vrykolakas sounds better than all of these ! I remember calling Marc and playing some blues and country licks on the phone for him and telling him it was from his Vrykolakas and he was blown away ! So you guys are right, each guitar will sound different do to materials in it . Remember even neck woods and headstock play a part in it all as well. Sound is a tricky thing guys, but be sure Marc is a master of it. I can damn near play any form of music on my Ikon, even some Jazz sounds great on it. Classical is insane on it ! I really can not be more honest about this than what I have said . But I will say this I think Marc's Ikon Guitars are the best thing out there right now and I'd bet my reputation on it ! For those of you who know me and my work ,that's a big deal ! yeah, there you go, now my waiting got even harder.... |
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Post by Marc Bertone on Mar 28, 2011 15:13:33 GMT -5
yeah, that's what I mean, each model will sound slightly different, and that makes for some "want more". Even how the pickup is mounted on the guitar, as you told me Marc, has something to say for the sound. I mean, you have a certain kind of guitar, pickup, cables, amp, cabinet, effect pedal, and a mic pointing to one of the speakers in the cabinet, cable from the mic into a certain kind of pre-amp in the certain kind of studio....Imagine all the variations. Over engineered things are boring, perfect example is cars. Or Darkthrone actually hehe, cause we never ever wanted to do things through the normal channels. Some people hate our sound since 2005 after we got our own studio, but thing is, we got balls to paint our own sound picture. So we DO have alot of things in common Marc. I have tried out so many different guitars through my life, some really good ones, but also real freaking expensive ones that really suck. What I like Marc, is your dedication to IKON, and the absolute will to "break the rules". Gotta totally respect that. Last few weeks has been amazing, and taken me places I did not know even existed a couple of months ago. Horns up!!! Yeah bro "Darkthrone + Ikon = marriage made in hell". In a non-homo erotic way of course. hahaha Proud papa Lou is rejoicing! |
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Post by N.Culto on Mar 28, 2011 15:18:31 GMT -5
hahaha exactly Marc
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Post by Blasphemessiah on Mar 29, 2011 4:32:26 GMT -5
I wonder what it sounds like when you screw a neck/headstock, hardware and electronics onto a 2 foot long pine 2"X4" board. Sounds like a good experiment to form a baseline on which to compare things to.
"Yeah that acrylic B.C. Rich Warlock looks alright, but it doesn't have the sustain/resonance/tone of the stud I had left over from building my shed"
I've seen scientific studies on building materials and designs for acoustic guitars, which are easy to compare due to their standard shapes and sizes. (An introduction to scientific guitar design - Donald Brosnac)
Electric guitars are a whole different story, and Ikon's are a whole different book! ...all i know is that they sound great!
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